This transcript is from a conversation between Jesse Keith Butler and Daniel Bezalel Richardsen on Wednesday, May 22, 2024, at the launch of The Living Law: Poems by Jesse Keith Butler (Darkly Bright Press) at Perfect Books in Ottawa, Canada.
The Living Law is a full-length poetry book that compiles a selection of Butler’s poems from the past 20 years. Many of these poems have been published in prominent poetry journals. Some sample poems available online:
Daniel Bezalel Richardsen is a contributing editor of Comment magazine. The conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
DBR: Jesse, the first thing that strikes me about your collection is that in your acknowledgements, you say that this is a work of over 20 years, two decades, and the thing that I've known you for at least half of that time, but I feel like there's a lot that I still don't know. One of the things I'm curious about is when did poetry start as a means of expression for you?
JKB: My kids asked me that in the car on the way here! What I told them is as far back as I can remember—I have a very clear memory of being in elementary school—I wanted to be the next Dr. Seuss. Because I just loved the rhythm and the fun of it too. So, as far back as I can remember it's been there. I wrote stuff all the time, but poetry was what I kept coming back to. I tried to be a singer-songwriter, but that wasn't really on the table. So, I stuck with poetry. For decades I was just writing, stockpiling them.
DBR: So, you would write these poems, maybe show them to select people that you trusted and were you hoping to get feedback, like: ‘Are they good?’ ‘Should I publish them?’
JKB: I wasn't thinking that much of publishing. I didn't know how to publish. I was aware that there was the annual CBC Poetry Prize, but I wasn't really aware of the publishing industry. A friend who is a published novelist told me that she uses Twitter to follow authors she likes. All I followed on Twitter at that time was related to politics and it was really depressing. So, I went home after that conversation and I unfollowed all the politics and I followed a bunch of writers. I didn't know a lot of writers that I liked back then, but I knew a few and then I started seeing, oh, so this is who they follow, this is who they follow, this is who they follow. Then, oh, they follow this magazine, oh, they publish in this magazine, I can read that magazine. Then it just built out from there and I realized that I should start sending poems to these magazines. As I gradually got more and more aware of the work out there that I liked and realized that I wasn't as much of a weird outsider as I thought I was.
I was actually doing, like, it's niche, like all poetry is niche, but there are lots of people doing work like I do and there is a place for it. So, I started sending stuff out and I started publishing stuff and it just kind of started from there.
DBR: Did you ever study poetry formally in academia?
JKB: I did lots of English courses. I did a Master's in English. I never took a creative writing course, other than in high school, I think. So, I understand meter for instance on a theoretical level, but as a writer, I was self-taught in terms of how I use it.
DBR: Did you get any good feedback when you submitted, and people accepted your work? Or how did you deal with rejections from publications? How did you persist? What was that process like?
JKB: I think I got lucky with a couple of them early on, and that gave me enough confidence to keep pushing ahead. I guess I've maybe always had a bit of a naive confidence in my writing, even though I didn't know what to do with it. But then, I got a couple of things published. And, just like reading stuff out there and thinking that this is not like it’s a wildly different league. I don't know, I just decided I could do it.
DBR: I'm sure you've had many changes that happened to you in your life over two decades. The two that I perhaps wanted to focus on are: Getting married and becoming a parent. And, your chrismation into the Orthodox Church. How have these facts changed your gaze on yourself, others, and things and situations, but also on your craft?
JKB: In terms of the family side of it, there are quite a few poems in the book about that aspect of my life. So, there's an element of inspiration there when there's a thing in your life that brings you a lot of joy. Also, having kids really helps you to appreciate that.
I would include my life and participation in church as well. Both family and church are two things that just stabilized me as a person and helped me to get a stable sense of who I am. To choose a direction and stick with it rather than flailing.
DBR: Do you have a kind of ritual or focus to write?
JKB: When I have tried to make my writing process really consistent, I find that I get really anxious about it. What I’ve been working on recently is not forcing myself to write because writing has to come from life, right? So, I'm trying to focus on living.